Vehicle seized and sold off by bailiff...

"BJ" (benjamin-bignell)
05/01/2018 at 09:25 • Filed to: stupid rules

... but it didn’t belong to the debtor. It was only parked in their driveway. Here in Quebec, bailiffs cannot legally access DMV records, so they just re-sell anything they seize on the property, incl. cars, without any proof of actual ownership!

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How does this happen? Well, getting a vehicle on the road in Quebec requires two things:

Registration of the vehicle with the SAAQ, the government-run vehicle registration and insurance board. This registration includes basic PLPD coverage (personal liability and property damage), but it excludes coverage to your person and your own vehicle.

Mandatory private insurance that covers your person and your own vehicle.

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The body that represents bailiffs, The Chamber of Judicial Officers of Quebec, has apparently been asking for legal access to this information for more than 30 years already .

But why didn’t the bailiff just look at the registration papers in the glove box? Most likely, the vehicle was locked and there was no key. It would have been sold as-is at auction, and the new owner would have been responsible for getting a new key made at the dealership.

This appears to have been the case, and in today’s story, the original owner was very lucky that the buyer was a decent person:

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In the end, though, this is just stupid. In an effort to protect individual privacy, the government prefers to let bailiffs seize and sell your property - blindly - to cover some else’s debt, and you basically have ZERO legal recourse. I don’t think you could even take the debtor to court to recover the loss, and in any case, that person doesn’t have any money, so you’re fucked.

Proper fucked.

DISCUSSION (18)

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > BJ
05/01/2018 at 09:24

Holy shit, and here I thought the US’s eminent domain law was shitty. Well it still is but this is fucking absurd.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > BJ
05/01/2018 at 09:31

I really have a hard time understanding how you have no legal recourse. Isn’t it theft at that point? Even at auction they don’t run the VIN to check ownership. There’s a whole lot of WTF here.

Svend > BJ
05/01/2018 at 09:32

Here bailiffs have to prove the vehicle, property, etc... belongs to the debtor before they can take it as payment or part payment for the debt.

But here bailiffs have access to the information or can request the debtor prove or disprove it’s theirs, but our bailiffs are court bailiffs and usually have the information before hand.

pip bip - choose Corrour > BJ
05/01/2018 at 09:34

starred for the Snatch scene.

BJ > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
05/01/2018 at 09:40

It’s a fine line, but it’s not theft because the bailiff is legally permitted to seize any and all assets on the property belonging to, or leased by, the debtor. And even if they did run the VIN, who would they run it with? It would be through the SAAQ, who will not release the information.

Maybe, just maybe, the insurance company will cover the loss? But for this to happen, you’d probably need to provide some sort of proof of a written contract between yourself and the debtor, showing that you were legally permitted to use their parking space and that the debtor had no claim on your vehicle.

DipodomysDeserti > BJ
05/01/2018 at 09:50

I think there’s a way to both protect privacy and not take other people’s stuff. What if the debtor is a landlord and has tennants? The bailiff is just going to take a bunch of random people’s stuff because it’s on the debtor’s property? Were Canada’s debt collection laws written by Tony Soprano?

Future next gen S2000 owner > BJ
05/01/2018 at 09:52

Here is ‘Murica, we solve that solution with shotguns and phrases involving ‘get off my property’, ‘like hell you are’, and the sound of a shotgun being racked

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > BJ
05/01/2018 at 09:53

Quebec: Official Province of “Fuck you, we’re doing it our own way”

BJ > DipodomysDeserti
05/01/2018 at 10:03

Yeah, really... the insurance board could offer a yes/no service that answers the question: does car X belong to Jane Doe? With proper supporting documentation, this would be secure enough.

This would allow bailiffs to seize and then release propery with little harm to the proper owner.

BJ > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
05/01/2018 at 10:04

Yeah, it kinds feels like that here sometimes...

BJ > Future next gen S2000 owner
05/01/2018 at 10:08

Hmm, I’m not sure I like your solution! And even though it might be effective, it won’t get you very far if you’re at work when the bailiff visits...

Maybe if you trained your local squirrels to use guns? They could watch over the place while you’re out.

Kinja'd!!!

Future next gen S2000 owner > BJ
05/01/2018 at 10:10

I’ve trained rabid squirrels to be sentinels.

Will Clark's Falsetto > Future next gen S2000 owner
05/01/2018 at 11:06

And in America, repo agents have to report repos to the police. Cars can’t just get auctioned off like this without a lengthy process. This is insane.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > BJ
05/01/2018 at 11:32

This story reminds me of this from Star Trek TNG:

My bird IS the word > BJ
05/01/2018 at 11:43

Well, I’m the us you would sue the govt. for illegal searches and seizures. Something something free country.

BJ > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
05/01/2018 at 13:41

Wow... was TNG always that cheesy? I remember watching it as a kid, but I don’t remember it that well, apparently.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > BJ
05/01/2018 at 15:24

And by cheesy you actually mean EXCELLENT.

Right?

RIGHT?

lol

I had the same experience watching Magnum PI which I thought was great when I was young and the show was new. But my reaction to watching it again now is that it’s total crap.

Worse than cheesy.

But other shows, usually comedies, have aged better like Married With Children or The Dukes of Hazard.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
05/01/2018 at 22:26

I hate to think how badly the Robocop TV series has aged.